Monday, January 31, 2011

Christ is the Tithe... You tithed because you believed.

Pang William
Communion not offered to everyone but for Abrahamic kind of faith. Tithing not for everyone but those with Abrahamic kind of faith - my 10% is nothing in comparison to all God has as the possessor of heaven and earth. Melchizedek appeared with communion and Abraham tithed. Abraham tithed because he had revelation. Lot didn't. ... by Geraldine Tan-Wee

You tithe because you have revelation. You tithe because you are partaker of Abraham's faith - righteous by Faith. You tithe because you are in the Tithe. You tithe because He first tithed... just like you love because He first loved. Amen.
on Friday · · ·
  • Stacy Smith Mims, Sheila Vertoli, Beverly Primne and 10 others like this.
    • Jonathan Brenneman Abraham tithed once, and the rest he did not even keep, he gave back to the king of Sodom.
      Saturday at 12:56pm · · 2 people
    • Joan Lim-Choong wow ~ deep and awesome! and so good! TQ Father, praise You Jesus!
      Saturday at 12:57pm · · 1 person
    • Esther Casas Cambaya Big AMEN! Brother Pang. All Glory to God the prossessor of heaven & earth! Hallelujah!
      Saturday at 12:57pm · · 1 person
    • Jonathan Brenneman A stronger use of that same logic would be to say we need to be circumcised because we are of the faith of Abraham.
      Saturday at 12:57pm · · 1 person
    • Jonathan Brenneman Circumsision was a command to Abraham, tithing was not. Tithing from the spoils of war was actually historically an acknowledgement of someones kingship. Melchizideck representing Jesus, What Abraham did was like us saying "Jesus is Lord" It was symbolic.
      Saturday at 1:01pm · · 1 person
    • Joel Brueseke Pang... what did Abraham tithe?
      Saturday at 1:01pm ·
    • Joel Brueseke What does it mean for the modern day Christian to tithe? Does it have any similarity whatsoever to Abraham's tithe?
      Saturday at 1:02pm ·
    • Pang William
      Jon, don't tithe if there is no revelation. Be it 10 or 100%, is all up to you. It isn't how much you tithe or what you tithe but knowing why you tithe.

      Circumcision is of the same meaning as tithing... being sanctified and made holy. Likewise water baptism... In Christ, we are circumcised. In Christ, we already tithed but the world doesn't see it until we show it, until we give generously. That I called... Faith without work is dead.
      Saturday at 1:16pm ·
    • Bryant W. Shultz
      Under the New Covenant it is called "Free will Giving" - All provision from God is Holy. To say I have to give a percentage for God to make His provision Holy I will use a word from a friend of mine "Rubbish". So many people are quick to say Abraham tithed when he gave ten percent to Melchizedek without mentioning that none of the gift came from his personal treasury but from the spoils of war and not only that he gave the other 90% away as well. This is a subject that I call the last stronghold of Grace... I expound on this more in the message below which by the way is the most viewed message on the blog. http://thegracezone.blogspot.com/2010/09/god-my-provider.html
      Saturday at 1:17pm · · 2 people
    • Bill Paddock great message bryant, awesome blog, love it
      Saturday at 1:42pm ·
    • Alejandro Grace Ararat Great point Bryant :)
      Saturday at 1:44pm ·
    • Pang William
      Thanks for the post Bryant and I totally love it. No many knows that Christ is our tithe but some do and say... If Christ is our tithe then why do we still need to tithe? It is like saying... since Christ loves me, why I need to love. I was once like that too... Without revelation, it is impossible to understand. Without Faith it is just impossible to please God. By Faith, we tithe. Not that the church needs our money and beside it isn't your money but His that you tithed. By Faith, we become righteous in Christ, by Faith, we tithe to witness that He lives.
      Saturday at 1:53pm · · 1 person
    • Joel Brueseke ‎"Christ is our tithe" is not at all the same as "Christ loves."
      Saturday at 1:56pm ·
    • David Marshall The New Testament focuses more on giving according to the dictates of one's heart rather than on the tithe.
      Saturday at 2:01pm ·
    • Pang William Christ is the Tithe, Christ is the Love, Christ is the Law. If you see with your flesh, you will certainly argue with me why I said Christ is the Law... Revelation is by the heart and not the head. Hear Him!
      Saturday at 2:04pm ·
    • Joel Brueseke Where in scripture does it say Christ is the tithe? God is love, yes. But Christ is the tithe? Abraham gave a tithe (one time, not of his own possessions) to Melchizedek, who is a type of Christ. But nowhere does scripture say that Christ is the tithe.
      Saturday at 2:13pm ·
    • Alejandro Grace Ararat Joel, do you believe that Christ is my PORTION?
      Saturday at 2:17pm ·
    • Joel Brueseke Christ Himself is our all in all. That doesn't mean we give ten percent of our income to any given entity. :)
      Saturday at 2:21pm ·
    • Joel Brueseke It may be 2% that we give. It may be 90%. It may be that we receive from others. Christ Himself indwells us, and is in fact our life.
      Saturday at 2:22pm ·
    • Alejandro Grace Ararat so who is Melchizedek, the bible said a priest of GOD was Melchizedek a person that is a human being or Jesus?
      Saturday at 2:22pm ·
    • Alejandro Grace Ararat Joel deduce your question from what you are saying if you will. Where in scripture does it say Christ is the tithe? Do you believe CHrist is my PORTION?
      Saturday at 2:24pm ·
    • Joel Brueseke Melchizedek is a type of Christ. The Levites, who were still in Abraham's bosom (they had not yet been born), effectively gave a tithe to Melchizedek (a type of Christ), and as Hebrews 7 says, that signifies that the Priesthood of Jesus is superior to the priesthood of the Levites. It does not mean that Christians tithe to Jesus. That is a very sad and poor interpretation of Hebrews 7.
      Saturday at 2:24pm ·
    • Alejandro Grace Ararat Lol There where no levits in abraham time. LET ME PULL YOU DOWN FROM A MISTAKE. THe law was introduce 430 later along with levites. So answer the questions if you will please :)
      Saturday at 2:26pm ·
    • Joel Brueseke Christ is my portion. I don't give "my" portion to Christ.
      Saturday at 2:26pm ·
    • Joel Brueseke Exactly, there were no Levites in Abraham's time. That's why Hebrews 7 says they were in Abraham's BOSOM.
      Saturday at 2:27pm ·
    • Joel Brueseke
      Heb 7:9-13
      9 Even Levi, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, so to speak, 10 for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.

      Need for a New Priesthood
      (Ps 110:4)

      11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
      Saturday at 2:30pm ·
    • Bryant W. Shultz
      It is because Christ is the tithe that there is no need to tithe. I agree without revelation it is impossible to understand. So does this mean the early church for centuries had no revelation? To say I tithe to please God would be saying that Jesus wasn't enough so now it is up to me to do more. God imparted Faith to everyone so that you might believe your redemption and receive your salvation. I tell others the Gospel of Grace to witness that Jesus lives. No argument, Christ is the Law because Jesus fulfilled the Law. Revelation is by the heart and I do hear Him... I know my Father's voice.
      Saturday at 2:31pm · · 2 people
    • Alejandro Grace Ararat According to the order of MELCHIZEDEK king of Salem let me translate that literally, it means king of righteousness king of SHALOM
      Saturday at 2:31pm ·
    • Joel Brueseke Levi (the Levites) paid tithes to Melchizedek (Christ) THROUGH Abraham, signifying that Christ is superior to the Levites.
      Saturday at 2:31pm ·
    • Joel Brueseke Hebrews 7 DOES NOT say that CHRISTIANS tithe to Jesus/Melchizedek. It says that the Levites tithed to Melchizedek, through Abraham... which signifies that the Priesthood of Jesus is superior to that of the Levites.
      Saturday at 2:33pm ·
    • Joel Brueseke That's the whole point of most of the book of Hebrews. The writer of Hebrews is NOT talking about Christians tithing to Jesus. Not at all.
      Saturday at 2:34pm ·
    • Joel Brueseke The writer of Hebrews is talking about how the Old Covenant, along with the priesthood of the Levites, is done away with completely. Jesus (of whom Melchizedek is simply a 'type') is superior to the Levites.
      Saturday at 2:36pm ·
    • Bryant W. Shultz Christ is my portion... He took my place... John 1:9 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. The Lamb is the tithe whose blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat. Jesus is the final sacrifice who took on the sins of the world. The tithe has been paid... "It is Finished. Now, you are Blessed to be a blessing... give as the Holy Spirit leads... if you don't it will be okay God still loves you! Shalom
      Saturday at 2:53pm · · 1 person
    • Bryant W. Shultz ‎@ Joel... you are correct... "The writer of Hebrews is NOT talking about Christians tithing to Jesus." Give as the HS leads you to... Give because Jesus gave... give of all the resources that God has blessed you with... God is your provider, God loves you!
      Saturday at 3:01pm ·
    • Pang William Heb 7:8 Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives. ... That's the reason we tithe. We have faith in Christ but the world doesn't see our Faith but our Tithe.
      Saturday at 5:10pm ·
    • Inge Adhipurna Chandra Sorry ...Jesus didn't tithe, He beame the tithe , He gave himself 100% not just 10%... when He told His disciple to fish to pay temple tax , so that they didn't
      Saturday at 8:46pm ·
    • Joel Brueseke
      Pang and everyone, thanks for this ongoing conversation. Can I suggest that we look more closely at the one sole verse you posted, and take it in the context of all that the writer is saying?

      Heb 7:8 Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.

      "Here mortal men receive tithes." To whom is that referring? In this case, who received tithes and who paid tithes? In this case, the Levite tribe received tithes from the other 11 tribes of Israel. This isn't talking about Christians tithing. Not at all.

      "But there he receives them." To whom is that referring? In this case, who received tithes and who paid them? In this case, Melchizedek received the tithe from Abraham, and as the writer says in the very next verse (verse 9), this means that Levi (the Levite tribe) paid tithes through Abraham to Melchizedek, because they were still in Abraham's bosom (they had not been born yet).

      And then we must look at what point the writer is making in all of this. In the whole letter to the Hebrews, his point is the ministry of Jesus is superior to the ministry of the Levites. The ministry of the New covenant is superior to the ministry of the Old Covenant. The New replaces the Old. That is his point. He is not saying that "we" (christians) pay tithes. Rather, the fact that the /Levites/ paid tithes to Christ (Melchizedek) through Abraham signifies that Christ is superior. That's the point of all this.

      The writer does not suddenly drop in a quick word about Christian tithing! His words about tithing are to illustrate the superiority of Jesus, not to illustrate a practice that Christians (or those of the faith of Abraham) are to partake in.
      Saturday at 8:47pm ·
    • Inge Adhipurna Chandra So that they didnt become stumbling blocks ...
      Saturday at 8:50pm ·
    • Inge Adhipurna Chandra Yes rubbish... U r right Bryant! If we give as a measure n a requirement.. Mixture new n old, we really need to step in to the New Covenant... If we do want to give .. Why focus to a requirement of. 10%? weird... Tht means we r still bound to rules n regulation of the old?!
      Saturday at 8:55pm ·
    • Inge Adhipurna Chandra
      Right Joel.. It is not the same Christ is our tithe therefore we tithe??? In fact, if we really get it, because Christ became our tithe when He fulfilled all the law incl tithing by giving Himself 100% , the Life if Christ enable us to lay down our life n give ourself as a holy living sacrifice, be it our money, services, our time whatever... n not measure by 10%

      Because Christ loved n died for us, therefore we love... No, it's not like a mathematical equation, we love with the love of Christ in us, His love flows thru our body ... It's not with our own self love
      Saturday at 9:03pm ·
    • Jonathan Brenneman I still don't get where the Idea that Christ is our tithe comes from.
      Saturday at 10:17pm ·
    • Jonathan Brenneman Doesn't make much sence to me. The passage in Hebrews is not even about money, in fact every time the New Testament talks about mony or giving it says nothing about the tithe. Check 2 Cor 8 and 9.
      Saturday at 10:19pm ·
    • Jonathan Brenneman
      Jesus said that when you give don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing. Also in Corinthians it talks of giving not out of compulsion, joyfully, as you are able. If my right hand doesn't know what my left hand is doing, how can I even know if I gave 10% or 5% or 20% As I am able may be more or less than 10%. If you would study the tithe historically it was paying tribute out of spoils of war to acknowledge someone as your king, which makes sense in the context of Hebrews which is talking about Jesus priesthood being better than that of the Levites. If we literally pay tithes as Abraham did it must be from spoils of war, because Abrahams tithe was only that. We have no reason to believe he ever tithed from his personal possessions.
      Saturday at 10:27pm ·
    • Jonathan Brenneman If you read the passages in the books of the Law about the tithe you will see that the tithe under the law was a feast. Collossians 2 speaks very clearly to the whole issue, especially the verse that says
      Saturday at 10:29pm ·
    • Jonathan Brenneman ‎"let no one condemn you concerning meat or drink, or sabbaths, or new moons, or FEAST DAYS, this were a shadow of things to come but the substance belongs to Christ.
      Saturday at 10:30pm ·
    • Pam Burrell Kilpatrick GIVE because you are like your Father the GREAT GIVER. You are not under even the compulsion of the law of tithing, on this side of the Cross but we give due to thanksgiving for His Love for us.
      Saturday at 10:47pm · · 3 people
    • Pang William Amen Pam.
      Yesterday at 1:47am ·
    • Pang William Joel, Sorry I'm not gonna argue with you on what you want to believe. It is your choice to tithe to Him or give to the needy. But I will stick to what I want to believe because I'm His beloved, and on whom I love, I give.
      Yesterday at 1:56am ·
    • Joel Brueseke Pang, I'm simply looking at what the scriptures say, and I'm not adding a man-made/contrived meaning to it. I'm looking at what the writer of Hebrews was actually communicating with the Jews he was writing to.
      Yesterday at 2:02am ·
    • Joel Brueseke I'm not against you doing what you believe in your heart to do, but I am very much against using this passage in Hebrews in a way that is contrary to what it is actually saying.
      Yesterday at 2:04am ·
    • Jonathan Brenneman Pang you said the world doesn't see our faith but it sees our tithe. Its so contrary to what Jesus taught, to give in secret. If we give in secret the world will not see our tithe.
      Yesterday at 3:12am ·
    • Jonathan Brenneman What the world sees and thinks is that church is all a big scam to get money, because there is so much manipulation about money. We should show the world that it is about giving and asking nothing in return, and in many ways more than just money. The world doesn't see our tithe, what they see is that someone wants their tithe.
      Yesterday at 3:14am ·
    • Joel Brueseke
      Some of the reasons given above by various people are the reasons why I would much prefer that we encourage one another to "give," and not to use the word "tithe" (ten percent). I wrote in another post that it's nobody's business how much I give (whether it's more than 10% or less than 10%). I don't believe than any Christian should be teaching "tithing" (giving ten percent) as a general principle for Christian giving. It's just not true. If a person has decided that they want to give ten percent, that's great, but it should not be taught as a biblical/Christian principle. There are all kinds of ways and amounts in which Old and New Covenant people gave, according to various biblical accounts, and beyond that there are many, many more examples in which we have no clue how much people gave.

      For example, in 1 Cor 16:2, Paul said he had encouraged the church in Galatia, as well as the church in Corinth, to have people "lay something aside" each week so that when he came he could collect it all and present it as a gift to the church in Jerusalem. No amount is given. Simply, "according to how each may prosper" (according to how much a person is able to give). The amount didn't that each person gave wasn't the issue. The real issue was the the church in Jerusalam was in need, and the other people were helping to provide for their needs!
      Yesterday at 3:24am · · 1 person
    • Joel Brueseke That's what giving is all about. It isn't about any given specific amount. It's about the fact that someone else has a need, and if you are able to help provide for that need you are encouraged to give. The amount that others need will vary moment by moment, day by day, year by year, etc. Circumstances may make it possible that you yourself are then one who needs others to give to you. That's life in Christ, helping one another as needs arise, not with a specific number or percentage for the rest of your life.
      Yesterday at 3:27am ·
    • Bryant W. Shultz
      Wow, a lot has been said since I went to bed and went to work! I grew up with tithing and it took over two years for me to unlearn what man had taught. I am not saying listen to me or any other man I am saying go to God and let the Spirit of Truth guide you and find out for yourself. With that said I have to say when it comes to Hebrews 7 it is about the validity of priesthood. Just for a little background who was the book of Hebrews written to? The Jews... so in this case it would help to know Jewish tradition to have a better understanding of what it means. Putting that aside here is the other thing that no one has pointed out... in Hebrews 7: 8 the words (receiveth them) is not part of the original text it was added by the interpreter. Makes you wonder why, what was the motive? The scripture declares that Melchizedek’s life has no end. They had witnessed that Jesus was alive and will live forever... He is our royal priesthood. I am going to repeat myself and that is I believe in giving. The main message I have for you is when it comes to tithing it is the last stronghold of Grace. Don't just take my word for it or your pastor's word for it. Take time to search the scriptures for yourself and let the Spirit of Truth guide you to the revelation that you seek. It is time for me to bow out... enjoy the journey, God loves you!
      Yesterday at 6:45am · · 2 people
    • Pang William Thank you Bryant for clearing up Heb 7. Truly one needs revelation to receive Tithe and also one needs revelation to tithe. Without the Spirit of Truth... we really don't know anything. Shalom.
      Yesterday at 12:56pm ·
    • Jonathan Brenneman My revelation on the tithe is that is is a dangerous doctrine and exactly the kind of thing that Collosians 2, Galatians, and Acts 14 speak so strongly against, that the way it is taught is not even based on the law but on tradition, and the kind of tithing people do today isn't even similar to the tithe in scripture.
      22 hours ago ·
    • Jonathan Brenneman
      I have not seen it used to bring people to Christ but to lead them away from Him. I agree with John Wesley who said a more excellent way than the idea of a tithe is to not stint yourself to any proportion at all, but to be the best stewards possible of everything.Besides that, Historically Christian churches did not take a tithe for the first several hundred years, and much of the time in history when it was implemented was when the church was more of a political institution than a church. It was not taught or even really discussed in the US except in the Catholic, Anglican, or other state-sponsered churches, untill the late 1800's and early 1900's. This tradition is used to break many of the commands and teachings of the New Testament. People don't want to stick to what the New Testament teaches about giving because they don't have control to be able to manipulate what people give, and they don't believe the Gospel if real enough to change peoples hearts, so they feel a need to make some outward kind of standard, even though it is nothing like even the tithe we see in the Bible, and none of the arguments that that tithe was not law and it applies to us make any sense. One of the biggest problems is that many feel they are backsliding if they don't pay their tithe(Even if they were not able to pay their bills.), because that is what they are taught. And so they are really coming to God no longer on the basis of what Christ has done but of works. Trying to manipulate what people give is called witchcraft.
      22 hours ago ·
    • Carol L Robinson Pang, each time I reread that statement, I wonder about it for it sounds as if those that don't "tithe" because of the "revelation" that it is not part of the new covenant are somehow a little less spiritual or have less faith than those that do. And yet I know what the Lord revealed to me. Abraham tithed, but gave 10% of the spoils, not any of his personal wealth.
      22 hours ago ·
    • Inge Adhipurna Chandra Yep , tithing is based on produced in Maleachi, not money!
      22 hours ago via ·
    • Inge Adhipurna Chandra Yep , Carol just wait until God reveals it to u! Tithing I strongly believes is part of old, God has moved away from many of the 'old' to enter into the new n into the glorious 'sonship' , let Him teach you!
      22 hours ago via ·
    • Pang William
      Tithe isn't about money or the giving to the needy. Tithe and giving are totally different. Why it is called Tithe? Tithe is a picture of 10 - the fullness in itself. Not necessary be 10% but 10.

      Gen 14:18 Then Melchizedek [king of Salem] brought out [bread and wine]; he was the [priest of God Most High]. 19 And he blessed him and said: "Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth; 20 And blessed be God Most High, Who has delivered your enemies into your hand." And he gave him a tithe of all.

      Typology:
      Melchizedek king of Salem - a picture of our Savior, our Lord Jesus Christ - the King of Peace, and also a picture of our great High Priest. Came and brought bread and wine - a picture of Salvation came to the world. And He blessed Abram - a picture of Grace through righteousness by Faith for the world. And Abram tithed - a picture of us offered the Lamb of God (our Tithe) scarified on the cross through our High Priest Jesus Christ.

      Now we look at Jacob... Gen 28:20 Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If God will be with me, and keep me in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, 21 so that I come back to my father's house in peace, then the LORD shall be my God. 22 And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God's house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You."

      Why Abraham tithed?... He believe that the LORD has delivered his enemies into his hand and with a thankful heart he tithed. And why Jacob tithed?... He stole Esau's birthright and also his blessing yet the LORD came to him in a dream and blessed him. He tithed because he was grateful, he tithed because the LORD is good despite all the wrongs he did yet he was forgiven.

      If Abraham and Jacob tithed... why not us? Do you not believe you are righteous by Faith like Abraham? Do you not believe you are forgiven for the wrongs you did like Jacob? Do you not believe... He is alive?
      22 hours ago ·
    • Carol L Robinson Inge, I totally agree with that it is not part of the new covenant.
      22 hours ago ·
    • Carol L Robinson Pang, I've studied the whole thing and the Lord took me from scripture to scripture to show me. He revealed that it isn't about the "church" or ministers in the church, but about loving Him and giving as He leads.
      22 hours ago · · 1 person
    • Carol L Robinson And if He doesn't lead a person to give to the ministry, then it's not what one should do. Sometimes, as in the past, we, in secret, paid for a couple of people to have a trip to Israel, another time, for two people to be able to attend bible college, a couple of times for airline tickets for those in need......what I have is offered up to Him and we allow Him to direct us in it.
      21 hours ago · · 1 person
    • Carol L Robinson I was thinking ......perhaps you should explain what you are talking about with the tithe....just in your words without the Abrahamic reference if you can. How are you separating tithe from giving? If we offer all to the Lord......our funds, our house, our hearts, etc...what is left??
      21 hours ago ·
    • Inge Adhipurna Chandra Exactly Carol we give not tithe as the Spirit leads u, the amount may vary, it's freedom in giving n learning to walk in the Spirit which is the essence of the New Covenant n not taught by mortal man. So our giving is to be led by the Spirit, n u know that God is in our giving, therefore there is 'Life' in our giving, n beautifully,all the times in my experiences... Glorious were the results because it was of God! As if we r not giving to mortals but really unto Him as we listens n obeys.. Try it!
      21 hours ago via · · 1 person
    • Inge Adhipurna Chandra Carol, by the way, the giving is not always money in my experiences, God knows His Body's needs.. U will be amazed!
      21 hours ago via · · 2 people
    • Pang William Carol, It is not about giving money or what percentage... It is us offering ourselves unto Him for we no longer live but He lives. Our Life is Light to the world... and they shall see and come to the Light... We live not for ourselves, not for our ambitions, not for our desire... but Him. That's what we are and that's what we become in this world... to bring in the harvest. That's why we are the tithe... the reflection of the true Tithe that bring Salvation to the world.
      19 hours ago · · 2 people
    • Carol L Robinson Oh, I think I responded something like that......that everything I have is His. Thanks Pang! :o)
      13 hours ago · · 2 people
    • Inge Adhipurna Chandra True Jonathan, tithe was just the early law to teach me to give before Christ the substance has arrived, but I agree to many is a stumbling block!
      about an hour ago via · · 1 person
    • Pang William The Tithe is the Firstfruit of God given to man... the righteousness of God in Man... before the foundation of the world. Abraham tithed not by the law and the children of Israel tithed under the law are both the same... pointed to the CROSS which is the TITHE!
      11 minutes ago ·



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