Monday, February 28, 2011

Why did God created man if He knew man gonna fall?

Pang William
Why did God created man if He knew man gonna fall?
February 17 at 11:24pm · · ·
  • Terry Hunter, Jonathan Yeong, Sandra Mapson and 4 others like this.
    • Cindy Byrns to show satan those that followed him how love conquers all -and that obedience is better than rebellion. : )
      February 17 at 11:27pm · · 2 people
    • David Carper But people spend eternity in Hell.......didnt ask to be part of the game....what does that show satan?
      Eternity in hell.....
      February 17 at 11:29pm ·
    • Cindy Byrns God provided the way out -and people are given a free will to accept or reject.
      February 17 at 11:31pm · · 2 people
    • DAwn Rubin I beleive He allowed it to enjoy a passionate Love story...he did it all for the passion of love...He knew man would fall...but he allowed it to show us How much He loves us...
      February 17 at 11:31pm · · 5 people
    • DAwn Rubin have ya ever watched a love story on TV? usually the most exciting part is when the man chases the woman and evenatully gets her...then the 2 fall madly in love and live happily ever after
      February 17 at 11:32pm · · 4 people
    • David Carper Eternity in Hell.....they dont all end happily ever after
      February 17 at 11:33pm ·
    • Jeff Arnold Happily ever after ==I like the sound of that :)
      February 17 at 11:33pm · · 2 people
    • Pang William Cindy, that's an interesting answer. Wonder would this be the same answer... Why He created the angels if He knew one third of them will rebel against Him?
      February 17 at 11:34pm · · 2 people
    • Cindy Byrns We can ask these things at the appointed time... : )
      February 17 at 11:35pm · · 2 people
    • David Carper didnt make a way out for the angels...?
      February 17 at 11:35pm ·
    • Jeff Arnold They had a choice
      February 17 at 11:36pm ·
    • Susan Zomparelli so many "why's" in this life. I would have to guess that man's fall was all a part of God's perfect will, even though we dont understand the why's
      February 17 at 11:38pm · · 2 people
    • Pang William Ya David... why God redeemed man and not the fallen angels?
      February 17 at 11:41pm ·
    • Susan Zomparelli Pang, Im wo ndering if you actually have an answer to your question or if you are just planting seeds of doubt into the hearts of God's people? Or maybe I am missing some other motive you actually h ave here?
      February 17 at 11:44pm · · 1 person
    • Cheryl Mudaly cos He created man & only man in His own image . God does not take back what He puts there for a purpose. Like any artist wanting their paintings to be admired & praised God created man also for the same reason, my thoughts on this!
      February 17 at 11:48pm · · 1 person
    • David Carper
      Because man was created in his image.
      As for why he created man knowing he would fall.....? It is an issue I have not been able to answer.
      But God does not answer to me......I do him. .....perhaps I will know when I see him face to face. .........til then I walk by faith.
      February 17 at 11:48pm · · 2 people
    • Pang William Susan, No... I don't any of us really think we have the answer but it is ok to say. Right? Daddy can give us the answer.
      February 17 at 11:49pm · · 3 people
    • Susan Zomparelli Yes its okay to say...always okay to question the Lord. His own will always have questions, I just worry about others who may be weaker in the faith and maybe dont have the same trust level as we do with the Lord:) I suppose we can say that they can seek Him for answers but I would just not like to plant seeds of doubt in them....I see that your motives are genuine, God bless you ♥
      February 17 at 11:52pm · · 1 person
    • Pang William I don't think it is a seed of doubt but a seed to the Truth. He did it for His reason, we just don't know yet... but I believe all shall be revealed in time... soon.
      February 17 at 11:55pm · · 3 people
    • Susan Zomparelli
      God has no concept of time. So to Him creating angels before us or after us is of no consequence. I believe that all happened for a purpose. Sometimes we go about things the hard way like for instance preparing a meal at home, because its just better. We could go out for fast food, but its not going to taste the same...even better than that is go to your grandmothers house for real homemade food-super yum!! But why go to all that trouble to cook when you can just dial a phone and have someone deliver?....Why go to all the trouble of creating angels, and having them fall...then man, and having HIM fall...for what? for something BETTER....YES, that is our God. Amen amen
      February 17 at 11:57pm ·
    • David Carper I agree
      February 17 at 11:57pm ·
    • Susan Zomparelli ok...God has a concept of time lol (duh) He just isnt bound by it:)
      February 17 at 11:57pm · · 1 person
    • Pang William Up to now... all I can understand is God is Love and He did all these for Love but still I cannot understand why He did it. Anyone?
      February 18 at 12:04am · · 1 person
    • David Carper Already gave my understanding pretty much same as yours.
      February 18 at 12:06am · · 1 person
    • Pang William Likewise the question people asked... If your God created the earth and loves the world... why He allow so much suffering to go on still? I reckon this one we have the answer...
      February 18 at 12:10am ·
    • Peter Wanderema i believe he ceated man to inhabit the earth......For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
      February 18 at 12:15am ·
    • Pang William Once I asked a senior pastor... God created man and also the angels, why God only redeem man and not the fallen angels? And he replied... man was tempted, satan was not. What do you say?
      February 18 at 12:16am · · 1 person
    • Pang William But Peter... if God ceated man to inhabit the earth and knew man gonna fall and hand over the earth to satan... the question is why in the first place He created man and the earth and the angels too?
      February 18 at 12:20am ·
    • Pang William
      Susan, you said you just worry about others who may be weaker in the faith and maybe dont have the same trust level as we do with the Lord. ... My answer is don't worry, Daddy has His hand on each one of us individually.

      Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
      February 18 at 12:32am · · 1 person
    • Steven Brown
      God does "all" things for His OWN GLORY. Christianity 101 :-)

      Isa 46:8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors.
      Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
      Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
      Isa 46:11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
      Isa 46:12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness:
      Isa 46:13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
      February 18 at 12:35am · · 1 person
    • Steven Brown
      Except for those whom have free will...

      Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
      Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is NONE righteous, no, not one:
      Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God.
      Rom 3:12 They are ALLl gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is NONE that doeth good, no, not one.
      February 18 at 12:37am ·
    • Sylvette Diezmo ahhh...interesting question,good conversation, make me read all the comments because i dunno why?my mind is spinning right now,but one thing is sure "we dont have to know everything as long as we know one thing"!
      February 18 at 12:37am · · 2 people
    • Steven Brown Isa 43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
      February 18 at 12:38am ·
    • Sylvette Diezmo why? maybe....to show His Love, to show His Supremacy!
      February 18 at 12:40am · · 2 people
    • Steven Brown Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
      February 18 at 12:41am ·
    • Steven Brown
      Isa 48:10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.
      Isa 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.

      Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
      Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
      Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
      Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

      Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
      Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
      Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
      Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

      Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

      Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
      Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
      Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
      Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
      February 18 at 12:43am ·
    • Sylvette Diezmo that is my short answer but if someone wants to elaborate it, it will end up into a satisfying answer, i challenge anyone!i am for exchange of knowledge but not for debate! :)
      February 18 at 12:44am · · 1 person
    • Pang William Steven, somehow I lost you... I know God is Glory and we give glory to Him because we know He is God. The Creator of heavens and earth. And He wants us to praise Him, to give glory to Him... so we can be humble, it is for our own good. But does God really need our praises?
      February 18 at 12:55am ·
    • Samuel Mathew
      Pang listen to this message. It will tell you why God created man. The story does not begin in Gen 3 when man fell. So there must be something that God is after if he made man without the need for salvation. Paul calls it the "eternal purpose" of God. This message helped me to take a peek into God's heart and I am not the same since then.
      http://ptmin.podbean.com/2010/08/04/the-eternal-purpose/
      February 18 at 1:11am · · 1 person
    • Steven Brown you asked "Why did God created man if He knew man gonna fall?"

      I simply gave you "some" Scriptures to support my statement " He does "ALL" things For His glory"
      February 18 at 1:22am · · 1 person
    • Steven Brown If you study superlapsarian (God's eternal decrees and orders) might be of some help. I'll see if I can find some good articles. i know you can go to this site www.gospeldefense.com Scott Price is a friend of mine. I'm sure you will find all that kind of information there...FYI
      February 18 at 1:37am ·
    • Paula Hammel I believe God created man for his pleasure. We had to have freewill. Love can not be forced on someone. Jesus was the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. The plan was already there.
      February 18 at 1:46am · · 1 person
    • Pam Burrell Kilpatrick Love trusts the object of it's love. God gave us self determination, or fee will because otherwise we would have been simply puppets and not in real relationship with him.
      February 18 at 2:08am ·
    • Pam Burrell Kilpatrick IF WE GO TO HELL we go because we chose to. Hell was not created from Man, it was created for satan and his fallen angels. WE got caught in the middle of his rebellion. It was an act of love and self giving for Christ to make a way to restore us. And we get to CHOOSE!
      February 18 at 2:11am ·
    • Samuel Mathew
      Pang, brother, I pray that you and others will listen to this message. The answer that you are looking for is here. You will know what is in the heart of God - it was from before time, it is still in His heart today, and it is a purpose for Him, by Him and for Him,
      http://ptmin.podbean.com/2010/08/04/the-eternal-purpose/
      February 18 at 2:15am · · 1 person
    • Dwayne Sweatman Why did God give a law, that he know Adam was going to break, and thus gave sin it's power?
      February 18 at 2:55am ·
    • Steven Brown
      I height of free will/ co-conspirators with the devil ; you shall not surely die/did God say..

      Free will concerning spiritual matters....understand the differences. Or you will be confused. mankind can not invoke the Holy Spirit. Nor command God make me alive. when Adam fell he fell spiritually. He died and "all" he represented. The first Adam being the federal head of the human race.

      Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
      Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
      Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

      Know one can see all are dead and seek not after the God of the bible

      Rom 3:10 according as it has been written, "There is not a righteous one, not even one!"
      Rom 3:11 "There is not one understanding; there is not one seeking God."

      One can see by "ALL" the religions in the world that man does seek after a god BUT NOT this God whom says what He says, and does as He pleases.

      Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

      If you have free will this does not apply to/for you. The bible won't make sense and will be full of contradiction. And it should sense your free will makes the choices and god is slave to them/you.

      (Rom 3:18 there is no fear of God before their eyes." LXX-Psa. 5:10; 139:4; 9:28; Isa. 59:7, 8; Psa. 35:2; MT-Psa. 14:1-3; 5:9; 140:3; 10:7; Isa. 59:7, 8; Psa. 36:1 )

      Rom 3:12 All turned away, they became worthless together, not one is doing goodness, not so much as one!" LXX-Psa. 13:1-3

      Rom 3:13 "Their throat is a tomb being opened;" "they used deceit with their tongues; the poison of asps is under their lips;
      Rom 3:14 whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.
      Rom 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood;
      Rom 3:16 ruin and misery are in their way;
      Rom 3:17 and they did not know a way of peace;
      Rom 3:18 there is no fear of God before their eyes." LXX-Psa. 5:10; 139:4; 9:28; Isa. 59:7, 8; Psa. 35:2; MT-Psa. 14:1-3; 5:9; 140:3; 10:7; Isa. 59:7, 8; Psa. 36:1

      Free will in its purest blashemy is I will be as God and God will have mercy on me coz I chose Him... making myself out to be like God, showing mercy on myself. They will deny "MANY" Scriptures and twist them to there own demise.
      February 18 at 2:57am · · 1 person
    • Pam Burrell Kilpatrick He gave a warning to Adam not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of good and evil or else to die spiritually and be disconnected from His Life.Without the option to CHOOSE - we are puppets. He wanted relationship based upon trust.
      February 18 at 2:59am ·
    • Dwayne Sweatman
      The faith that the Holy Spirit causes looks to Christ and denies free will of any worth or contribution to salvation!

      Adam could not have chosen any other way. The fall was decreed because Christ is preeminient. Without a fall there would have been no savior. The savior has supremacy in God's plan, not man.
      February 18 at 3:00am · · 1 person
    • Paula Hammel Then why did God say I set before you life and death Choose Life!!
      February 18 at 3:01am ·
    • Pam Burrell Kilpatrick OH, you think we are puppets??? I don't serve a God like that!
      February 18 at 3:01am ·
    • Paula Hammel Dewayne, Man is seated with Christ at the right hand of the Father?? I pray you get understanding of the Value God placed on man.
      February 18 at 3:06am ·
    • Steven Brown Psa 33:10 The LORD bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect.
      February 18 at 3:06am ·
    • Dwayne Sweatman
      ‎"OH, you think we are puppets??? I don't serve a God like that!"

      No we are not puppets we are humans, subject to a creator and his determined plan.

      Proverbs 16:9 -A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

      Daniel 4:35 - And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

      Proverbs 20:24 - A man's steps are determined by the LORD, so how can anyone understand his own way?

      By the way simple logic would let you people know that a command does not imply freedom! LOL.

      Be not many teachers....you cannot take an imperative and teach an indicative. That is eisegesis.

      Due to God's omniscience and omnipotence Adam could not have done anythign but EAT the fruit. God gave the Law, and thus gave sin it's power. The plan was the preeminence of Christ, not God needing someone to love him. God does not need us at all. He has chosen this world to display all his attributes.

      Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version)

      "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
      February 18 at 3:10am · · 1 person
    • Steven Brown Pam please read the scriptures and trust not any preconceived teachings. You sound just like me before i started "not" listening to other people and reading scriptures . My parents were wrong and taught me about a false god.
      February 18 at 3:15am ·
    • Steven Brown Psa 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
      February 18 at 3:19am ·
    • Paula Hammel Christ paid for the sins of the entire world. People have to find out this good news before they can be partakers of it!
      February 18 at 3:31am ·
    • Dwayne Sweatman If Christ paid for everyones sins, how does anyone go to hell?
      February 18 at 3:32am ·
    • Steven Brown The bible will not support your statement Pam "anywhere" not one single verse
      February 18 at 3:34am ·
    • Donna Tremblay We needed the journey, regardless of the fall, if we never fell we would still be on the journey of Jesus teaching us in the cool of the day and we learning at his feet and enjoying his presence. But I think it is all about the journey, and whatever it brings by our choices, and it has an end, or purpose (we'll see).
      February 18 at 4:21am · · 1 person
    • Paula Hammel Dewayne, they reject the gospel?
      February 18 at 4:23am ·
    • Paula Hammel
      ‎2 Cor 5:15 Christ died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

      2 Cor 5:19 God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
      February 18 at 4:29am ·
    • Pang William
      Samuel and everyone here, before I listen to the message... in my heart i knew the answer to my question is Christ but i just couldn't connect why man must fall to fulfill God's plan. Now it connects... Now I truly understand why we are the bride, the church, the body of Christ, the family in divine nature. It is not just for us but for Christ and the Father.

      Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
      Col 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

      Thank you so so so much, Samuel. And I praise Daddy for you. For we are made in His image to live in the fullness of Christ not just for us but for Him. Hallelujah!! My love brothers and sisters, you need to listen to this message... http://ptmin.podbean.com/2010/08/04/the-eternal-purpose/ if you want to walk in His fullness on earth.
      February 18 at 4:33am ·
    • Amanda Powell somehow, to Him, it was worth it. We were worth it. It's amazing.
      February 18 at 4:43am · · 1 person
    • Steven Brown Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
      February 18 at 4:47am ·
    • Paula Hammel Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. "the new birth"?? "in christ"
      February 18 at 4:53am ·
    • Steven Brown
      Would your God destroy infants and babies...Mine does and He does for the love of His people

      1Sa 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
      1Sa 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

      God "ALONE" is faithful and it is by the faithfulness of the promised Son (Messiah) to save "ALL" those whom the Father gave Him.

      Joh 18:9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.

      Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
      Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
      Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
      Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
      February 18 at 4:56am ·
    • Steven Brown
      One must conceder the whole counsel of God to see God's glory in the face of Jesus Christ. There are so "many" counterfeits out there you have to study to show yourself approved unto God a... 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
      2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
      February 18 at 5:01am ·
    • Steven Brown It is by the grace of God anybody is saved AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELF Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
      Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
      February 18 at 5:03am ·
    • Steven Brown One should always look to whom the letters or books are written just to start so to see the context of it contents.
      February 18 at 5:05am ·
    • Paula Hammel You can reject the gift.2 cor 2:16 To those who are perishing, we are a dreadful smell of death and doom. But to those who are being saved, we are a life-giving perfume.
      February 18 at 5:06am · · 1 person
    • Paula Hammel Don't complicate the simplicity that is in Christ.
      February 18 at 5:12am ·
    • Frank Dietzel To redeem a people unto Himself.
      February 18 at 5:17am ·
    • Steven Brown
      when you say Christ Paula your talking about someone you say "you" know. When I'm talking about Christ I'm talking about someone I know. when a Musslin takes about Christ they talk about someone they say the know. "ALL" three of have a different Christ. Which one of us is telling the truth? I AM talking matters of life and death

      Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

      1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
      February 18 at 5:17am ·
    • Steven Brown
      The Christ I'm taking about and the message of grace is an offense to the flesh. Man has "no" part in it...It's "all" of grace from start to finished. It is "ALL" conditioned on Christ alone and leaves "NO" room whatsoever for boasting. God the Father saves those whom He gave to the Son ( His people) (whom He loves with an everlasting love; He has ALWAYS LOVED THEM)

      He saves them "ALL" on the ground of Christ "RIGHTEOUSNESS" ALONE. A just God and a Savior. This gospel shows God’s justice vindicating those whom Jesus represented by Christ being born of a virgin without sin and His obedience to the fullness of the law.

      Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
      Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
      Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

      The Christ I'm talking about was and is the fulfillment of the Fathers promise to save His people from there sins (ALL OF THEM) Oh, what a SAVIOR! What manner of love God has for His children, not that they loved God, BUT that He loved them and sent His Son to be a propitiation (divine satisfaction) and lay down his life for the sheep.

      He (Jesus) would be responsible for them and would satisfy LAW and JUSTICE on their behalf. Jeus wou8ld carry them until the end.
      Isa 46:3 Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb:
      Isa 46:4 And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you.

      If you find yourself worshiping another jesus, do like Paul in Phil.3 count it all dung. Don’ot change doctrines BUT CHANGE GODS. He will not leave one of His behind and leaves the 99 to get the 1.

      Lots to say, I‘ll leave at this point, got to go shovel snow. Any question please feel free to ask or message to the side J

      Ps this is in no way the whole of the gospel, BUT a glimps at the glory of God in the face of His Son
      February 18 at 6:00am ·
    • Steven Brown We need a righteousness in which God himself cannot find a flaw. Where are we to find it? --In Jesus Christ, the blessed, spotless, lamb of God.
      February 18 at 6:14am ·
    • Steven Brown
      I tell ya a truth most people that claim to be christians have never even heard the "true" gospel...

      (Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jewfirst, and also to the Greek.
      Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith)

      nor care to when someone like me "starts" to explain the message of God's promise. They are usually happy in their religion, BUT when God gets ahold of one of the sheep whom Christ "HAS" redeemed...

      Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
      Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

      they hear His voice and "know" no man taught them theses things..

      Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

      they whomsoever they may be, "will" forsake all their religion, family and friends that they might be found in Him.
      February 18 at 8:24am ·
    • Michelle Eevette Mims Lewis
      Andrew Wommack Teaching: Most Christians believe the answer to that question is obvious: “God created Satan.” But that is not really true. God created Lucifer. That may seem like a small distinction at first glance, but once you understand who really made Satan, it will change your perspective of him forever.

      You will never again doubt your authority over the devil. You will realize that he is an inferior being, unable to do anything without the cooperation of a human being. And any fear you have of him will disappear as you realize he is nothing but a big zero with the rim knocked off.

      I believe that God created everything, including Lucifer. He created Lucifer as a powerful anointed angel. However, Lucifer wasn’t satisfied with that, and he didn’t remain the anointed cherub that God created him to be.

      Ezekiel 28:13-14 describe him as he originally was in the Garden of Eden:

      “Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.”

      Most people believe that Lucifer took one-third of the angels and rebelled against God in heaven, where he was defeated and then cast to earth. This is all taken from one scripture, in Revelation 12:4, and was popularized by Finis Dake in the Dake’s Bible commentary. I don’t believe that is what actually happened.

      I believe that Satan was originally on this earth in the Garden of Eden as Lucifer. He was God’s number one angel sent to earth to be a blessing to Adam and Eve.

      Hebrews 1:14 says this about angels:

      “Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?”

      Lucifer wasn’t sent to the earth to tempt Adam and Eve but to bless them. He was an angelic being sent to be their protector, to minister to them, and to serve them. He was there on a divine mission, still in his perfect state. It was in the Garden that his transgression against God was conceived and carried out.

      Ezekiel 28:15 goes on to say,

      “Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.”

      I have never been able to follow the logic that God sent Satan to earth to tempt man and see how he would respond. As a father, would you take your two-year-old child and put him or her in a cage with a lion just to see how he or she would respond? That would obviously be irresponsible; the child would be no match for the lion. God wouldn’t do that to us, and he didn’t do that to Adam and Eve.

      So, what made Lucifer turn against God? Lucifer watched as God did something for man that He had never done with any other of His creation. When God created man, not only was he made in the very image of God, but he was then given unconditional authority over this earth.

      Genesis 1:26 says,

      “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”

      He didn’t say to them, “Now as long as you follow my leading and as long as you do what I want you to do, I will let you have dominion over the earth.” There was zero qualification for this power and authority. God spoke it and that was it.

      God says in Psalm 89:34,

      “My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.”

      In Hebrews 1:3 it says,

      “Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high” (emphasis mine).

      What this is saying is that God cannot lie; it’s the integrity of His Word that holds the entire universe together. Unlike human beings who reserve the right to change their minds, God will not violate His Word. When He told Adam and Eve they had dominion, authority, and power to subdue and rule, it was done.

      Lucifer understood the integrity of God’s words, and when he heard this, I believe his antenna went up. He saw that Adam and Eve had something he wanted but didn’t have: They had unconditional authority. In a way, they had been made the gods of this world; it was theirs to rule and subdue.

      We read in Psalm 115:16,

      “The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD’S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.”

      Even though Lucifer may have been God’s number one angel, he still wanted more. He was jealous and envious; he actually wanted to take God’s place.

      In Isaiah 14:13 it says,

      “For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.”

      The next verse says,

      “I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”

      Lucifer understood that if he could deceive Adam and Eve into willingly relinquishing their authority to him that he could become the god of this world. He could take the authority that was given to mankind, use it to thwart the kingdom of God, and receive the praise and adoration and glory he wanted.

      Romans 6:16 says this,

      “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?”

      So, who made Satan? We did! The moment Adam and Eve yielded to Lucifer, he became Satan, the god of this world. You might be thinking, But Satan deceived them. Shouldn’t God have stopped him?

      Read 1 Timothy 2:14:

      “And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”

      Adam knew what he was doing.

      I believe the moment Lucifer transgressed against God, he lost his angelic power. Satan now has no power or authority of his own; he only has what he has been able to deceive people into giving him. Now, that is a powerful statement.

      Think about what that means to you as a believer. When we are resisting the devil and fighting against him, Satan does not have a superior power or authority. He is absolutely dependent upon the cooperation of a human being who will empower him with the authority God gave them.

      Satan is going about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. He is looking for people who will open the door through things like lust, rebellion, strife, unforgiveness, fear, and more. When we yield to those things, we are empowering him to destroy us, and I guarantee you, given the opportunity, he will eat your lunch and pop the bag.

      In this article, I am only scratching the surface on my teaching “Who Made Satan?” and it is only one teaching in my six-part series called The Believer’s Authority. Until you understand the power and authority that God has given you, you will never be able to defeat the devil, receive healing, prosper, and live in victory. Knowing your authority is the key! This teaching is an absolute necessity for every believer.
      February 18 at 8:26am · · 1 person
    • Paula Hammel
      Steven I don't really get what you are doing with all those scriptures. I have been saved by Grace alone. I know the date and the hour I was saved. God is now with me. All other religions are works righteousness. True Christianity is based upon the finished work of the Cross. All scripture should be viewed through the Cross if you are a Christian. I did not do anything good to receive this salvation. I heard the simple Gospel and was born again. It is all about God's love for all people. I know what I am and what I have and whose I am. Jesus is the author and finisher of my faith. God bears His fruit in me.

      1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.

      God is Love
      February 18 at 10:37am · · 2 people
    • Pang William Michelle, thank you for sharing. I have Andrew's teaching on this and it is certainly good to hear it again...http://www.awmi.net/extra/audio/1045
      February 18 at 12:13pm · · 1 person
    • Peter Wanderema
      The short answer to the question “why did God create us?” is “for His pleasure.” Revelation 4:11 says, “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.” Colossians 1:16 reiterates the point: “All things were created by him and for him.” Being created for God’s pleasure does not mean humanity was made to entertain God or provide Him with amusement. God is a creative Being, and it gives Him pleasure to create. God is a personal Being, and it gives Him pleasure to have other beings He can have a genuine relationship with.

      Being made in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:27), human beings have the ability to know God and therefore love Him, worship Him, serve Him, and fellowship with Him. God did not create human beings because He needed them. As God, He needs nothing. In all eternity past, He felt no loneliness, so He was not looking for a “friend.” He loves us, but this is not the same as needing us. If we had never existed, God would still be God—the unchanging One (Malachi 3:6). The I AM (Exodus 3:14) was never dissatisfied with His own eternal existence. When He made the universe, He did what pleased Himself, and since God is perfect, His action was perfect. “It was very good” (Genesis 1:31).

      Also, God did not create “peers” or beings equal to Himself. Logically, He could not do so. If God were to create another being of equal power, intelligence, and perfection, then He would cease to be the one true God for the simple reason that there would be two gods—and that would be an impossibility. “The LORD is God; besides him there is no other” (Deuteronomy 4:35). Anything that God creates must of necessity be lesser than He. The thing made can never be greater than, or as great as, the One who made it.

      Recognizing the complete sovereignty and holiness of God, we are amazed that He would take man and crown him “with glory and honor” (Psalm 8:5) and that He would condescend to call us “friends” (John 15:14-15). Why did God create us? God created us for His pleasure and so that we, as His creation, would have the pleasure of knowing Him.
      February 18 at 6:47pm · · 1 person
    • Frank Dietzel
      ‎@Steven Brown: God created evil, Genesis 2: 17-18. .."Thou shalt not..." He decreed the Fall of Man so he might redeem a people unto Himself. Redemption came on the back-drop of sin. Praises unto our God, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in" to the natural olive tree. As a Gentile, I have the promise to Abraham, the Seed, Christ Jesus, who bore my sin on the cross, so I might be redeemed. Why O why did my sovereign do this? Because He loved me; He inscribed my name in the palms of His hands.
      I weep at the comprehension of God redeeming His people, Jew and Gentile, unto Himself. God loves His people.
      February 18 at 10:03pm ·
    • Steven Brown
      amen, my God is Sovereign, Christ represented His (not all) people whom the Father gave and secured all of there salvation (start to final glory and in glory) including the work of the Holy Spirit in them. He shall lose none :-) for this reason He came and the work is done.

      Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
      Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
      February 19 at 12:05am ·
    • Paula Hammel John 3:16 says not: God so loved the elect, but rather: God so loved the world. God gives everyone a chance so that: whosoever believeth in him should not perish.
      February 19 at 12:30am · · 1 person
    • Paula Hammel
      ‎1 Tim 2:3 -5 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior
      who desires ALL men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all.
      February 19 at 12:34am · · 1 person
    • Frank Dietzel God bless YOU, Steven. I weep over God's redeeming a wretch, like me. He gave us our faith; He justified us through His Son's obedience, in going to the cross of redemption. We are born of God, pertected forever, and have the right to the Tree of Life!
      February 19 at 12:35am · · 1 person
    • Steven Brown
      Sure didn't love those in the flood "save" 8 or those whom brought strange fire. Num 26:61 And Nadab and Abihu died, when they offered strange fire before the LORD.

      nor these ppl

      1Sa 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that whichAmalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
      1Sa 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

      but when men and women makeup there own idols you have a god that is there own imagination coz they did not love the God of the bible. And worship another jesus....

      ps that is not what jn3:16 in its context is taking about the world is Christ explains to Nicodemus (a JEW whom thought salvation ws only for the JEWS) is that there is another fold that God does love out of the world "EVERY" kindred tribe tongue and nation. As previously posted a bunch of times

      you would have to literally ripe out every verse of the bible to make jn3:16 say that Paula
      February 19 at 12:45am ·
    • Steven Brown Context, context, CONTEXT...the first thing any bible teacher sent of God teaches there students is................CONTEXT.
      February 19 at 12:51am · · 1 person
    • Frank Dietzel
      CONTEXT: The prime purpose of the church is to teach the Whole Counsel of God...
      'And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:....'
      February 19 at 12:56am · · 1 person
    • Paula Hammel You should get into the context of the Cross of Jesus Christ! Are you a Mormon or Jehovas Witness?? What is up with you? You are disqualifying people Christ gave his life for?? You do not have the Good News. Your news is all Bad News. I hope you find Love!!
      February 19 at 12:56am ·
    • Paula Hammel Mark 16 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature."He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. BELIEVE- to be persuaded of. This is an action on our part.
      February 19 at 1:06am · · 1 person
    • Steven Brown
      I was deceived just like you Paula until God opened my eyes. I started listening to Him and reading what the bible says...not my preconceived notions and the religion (Roman Catholic) I was brought up in. When God opens the door no man can shut it. When the Holy Spirit takes up residence the witness is within one that they "are' without a doubt a son of God.

      Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
      Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
      February 19 at 1:07am · · 1 person
    • Frank Dietzel We believe because we are created 'a believer', a "sheep (John 10)', by God. We are not a believer because we believe; we believe because we are a believer, a sovereign act of God. Jesus went to the cross for His sheep; His people given to Him by Almighty God.
      February 19 at 1:11am · · 1 person
    • Steven Brown I did the same thing, i would take the verses i was taught and forget the rest coz they wouldn't tie in with what I was taught.
      February 19 at 1:12am · · 1 person
    • Steven Brown
      For instance God loves everybody it just wouldn't fit in with..

      Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
      Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
      Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
      Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

      and i started seeing everywhere and started asking question and eventually kick out of several churches.
      February 19 at 1:15am ·
    • Steven Brown I was saying God is unrighteous just like you are saying Paula
      February 19 at 1:15am ·
    • Steven Brown I started looking into church history. I had to find o0ut for myself what the bible said and who is this God i am encountering.
      February 19 at 1:16am ·
    • Steven Brown
      Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

      Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

      Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
      Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
      Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
      Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
      Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
      February 19 at 1:30am ·
    • Steven Brown
      via Dwayne Sweatman
      Do you think the doctrine of unconditional election is unfair? Do you think that Jesus' atonement does not accomplish anything except making salvation possible? Do you hate the God that controls all things? Do you think that God's will is thwarted by mens decisions? Do you think God loves everyone salvifically?

      Your lost and in need of repentance. May God help you. You know not God
      February 19 at 2:44am ·
    • Richard Gamel
      Frank, Steve, Im sorry, how stupid can you be & still breath, 'do not err, every good & perfect gift comes from God', predetermining a fall,killing babies etc. creating evil taken out of context which is only God saying "the consequence of you believing the truth that I am your righteousness will produce persecution (evil), not because God is CONTROLLING the evil. You neither know the gospel or have it, you have nothing but a veryyyyyyyyy bad perspective on a God who IS LOVE & operates through the risen Christ who died on the behalf of the sins of the WHOLE WORLD, not just 'arrogantly, soveriegnly yours.' Im sorry, but there is zero indication that you know Jesus Christ but to me, you are of the devil & I rebuke your false doctrine & it will COME TO NOUGHT, after all, if God is all powerful in the sense of controlling everything, than your in rebellion for not receiving what He just controlled me to say, dont bother responding but I had to break away from being politically correct for the sake of waking you up, which you probably didnt.
      February 19 at 3:29am · · 1 person
    • Paula Hammel ‎@Steven you are absolutely right! We do not have the same god. You are married to the law, I am married to Jesus. The Scriptures spoke to the woman caught in adultery and said "Stone Her!" Love spoke to the same woman and said "I Do Not Condemn You".
      February 20 at 12:08am ·
    • Paula Hammel Stop condemning people and declare their Innocence in Christ!
      February 20 at 12:09am ·
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