Wednesday, March 2, 2011

God allows all kind of trials and tribulations in our life for a reason?

Pang William
[God allows all kind of trials and tribulations in our life for a reason. It is to perfect us. Yes we live by grace. Everything we has received from God is truly be grace. However God is still interested in building our character. This has nothing to do with grace. He wants us to have resilence (that is the ability to bounce back and not give up), honesty and integrity, reliability and responsiblity. Read the book of James. That is another thought. Grace and faith alone are not enough. If it is enough we don't have to suffer and go through so much hardship. We cannot say that the devil gave us hardship. God has to allow the hardship since we are his children. The devil had to ask God to make Job suffered because he cannot do anything until God gave permission. Likewise with us, every suffering that we go through is with the permission of God. He allows it because he knows that we will overcome and good things will come out of it.]... Now what do you say to this?
on Monday · · ·
  • Cathy Rheeder, Khoo Maggie, Derrick Day and 3 others like this.
    • Paula MakeSparkles Chambers lie from the pit of hell. please re-read the book of Job and James.
      Monday at 8:27pm · · 5 people
    • Marshall Holmes I agree wholeheartedly w/you Pang. The Church MUST be prepared to do war w/ the enemy forces in the last days that we're in, or suffer great defeat at the hands of the enemy. The Church is staggerling right now because of a lack of fortitude. This idea that says the Father doesn't use hardships to build a massively strong Church only produces infants in the faith. It's obvious from what we're experiencing in the Church today. Look at how we join w/ the enemy to shoot our own wounded.
      Monday at 8:41pm ·
    • Deborah Clingenpeel
      Well sister I am sorry but I do not believe God is"allowing" us to go through hardships to teach us! The Lord has given us his word to teach us & instruct us. We have the Holy Spirit which teaches us. God says to resist the devil & he will flee from you. God has given me everything to live an abundant life here on this earth through Jesus, which I received in my Spirit the moment I put my faith in Jesus's finished work on the cross I became one with him! As he is so am I in this world. I in my spirit are positioned at a place of victory with Jesus at the right hand of God. If you believe that God puts sickness & destruction on you to teach you & to build your character, then sister the next time you get sick I suggest you just go with it, or if something bad happens to you, just embrace it, that is just plain stupid! Is this the way you would teach your child???? Job did not have a covenant with God that we have. But God did restore Job twice what He had! Sister trials, & tribulations come our way because we live in a world which has been corrupted by sin & it is fallen!
      Monday at 8:51pm · · 5 people
    • Pang William Marshall, FYI I didn't write that... someone did. I just copy and paste here to see how many agree or disagree.
      Monday at 8:53pm · · 6 people
    • Bryant W. Shultz
      We have already been perfected in the perfection of Jesus Christ... our character is in Christ... As a father I would never put my children through or allow a hardship to teach them... I love them. It is because of God's mercy that he gave us Grace and imparted faith no need for anything more than to believe... because we are a new creation we are not of this world, but we still live in this world... make no mistake hardships do come from the devil... because of Jesus and his victory over death you are able to overcome such hardships... the other way to look at hardship is... compared to who? God loves You!
      Monday at 8:55pm · · 3 people
    • Deborah Clingenpeel
      God never intended for man to live this way but it was man who turned over their dominion & authority to Satan in the garden of Eden. So since God gave all authority & dominion to man by his word He (God) had to have a man sent to win back all authority & dominion for man! This man was Jesus, but He wasn't just a man he was a sunless man in humanity, but He was also God! Jesus conquered all of sin, sickness, poverty,& every demon in he'll for us & won back authority, & dominion for all mankind, butbit can only be received through fIth in Jesus! I receive it based on Jesus! The kingdom of God which is in me suffers violence, but the violent take it by force! I take it by my faith in the authority in Jesus's name which has been granted to me by faith! I can overcome by Christ in ME!
      Monday at 9:00pm · · 3 people
    • Bryant W. Shultz Pang I am glad to hear it... you had me wondering... you even moved higher up on my prayer list... :) Actually my first thought was if this is what you heard in church yesterday you went to the wrong one... God loves You... still! :)
      Monday at 9:02pm · · 5 people
    • Pang William Bryant, I am glad too... and it wasn't from my church but from someone very dear to me. :))
      Monday at 9:06pm ·
    • Paula MakeSparkles Chambers this upset me so greatly I had to leave the computer. After sitting and thinking of How GREAT and Wonderful my Abba Father is...it started to anger me.
      Monday at 9:06pm ·
    • Paula MakeSparkles Chambers OOPS! must remember cannot click enter without it sending. Anyway...as a mother I would never ever in a million years allow a bully to come and beat up my son to help him overcome bullying!!! Why would our Holy Father allow such a cruel thing???
      Monday at 9:08pm · · 2 people
    • Deborah Clingenpeel Sorry for all the typos! You should get my point! I love you sister, & I pray the Holy Spirit would reveal the truth to you, show you the love that God has for you & all He has given you through Jesus! I pray you can repent from this wrong way of thinking! God is love & He is always good. My friend Tom Tompkins has a book he has written which can answer more of your questions about Job! Blessings & Shalom to you!
      Monday at 9:12pm · · 1 person
    • Bryant W. Shultz It reminded me of the scenario of telling my son to lie down stretching his legs onto the road and after the truck ran over them and crippled him... I tell him I did this because I love him and that he will learn from it... (what he would learn is to never listen to me again!), like a good friend of mine states it is time to restore my Daddy's picture so people will truly know His love for us!
      Monday at 9:13pm · · 2 people
    • Deborah Clingenpeel ‎@ Pang Lol I thought when I read that it was contrary to some of your other posts, @ Paula yes I did the same thing hitting the return button before I was finished.
      Monday at 9:16pm · · 3 people
    • Paula MakeSparkles Chambers Off topic....@Alan how did you break it up like that?^^^
      Monday at 9:27pm ·
    • Bryant W. Shultz ‎@ Paula... He posted while on his wall.
      Monday at 9:34pm ·
    • Paula MakeSparkles Chambers thank you Bryant.
      Monday at 9:37pm ·
    • Vivien Yong Oh Paula & Bryan I love both your analogies!!! :) I definitely can't imagine a loving parent asking his/her child to go through hardship just to bring a point through or teach a life lesson. Simply love it! Straight to the point!
      Monday at 9:45pm · · 3 people
    • Bryant W. Shultz ‎@Pang... by the way you still moved up on my prayer list... :)
      Monday at 9:49pm · · 1 person
    • Joshen Zu Xian
      What interests me is that many of you say that the Word is a good enough teacher... what then of Christians that do not spend that much time in the word? Secret service christians... Are they not as righteous? are they not as enveloped in grace as you and i?

      How then does the word teach, if the word is not read? How then do they learn their lessons?

      If not by the word, then by what means?

      I admit, that I am not that diligent of a reader, and opening my bible day by day still remains an elusive goal for me...

      how then did i learn? Or have i not yet learnt anything?
      Monday at 9:57pm ·
    • Paula MakeSparkles Chambers I read then I walk. If I walk by the example given me, my children learned and grandchildren learn through my example. When I walk throughout my day I meet people along the way...I pray to be a living example of Jesus for those who may not be able to or have no desire to read. I use words when necessary.
      Monday at 10:01pm ·
    • Edwin Morales Leaders are tested to see how are they going to respond in life for others.If we stay focused we will manifest what we are.If we don't we will bring confusion.Let's bring God glory!
      Monday at 10:05pm ·
    • Bryant W. Shultz Joshen, it is by the Holy Spirit that we are taught... Jesus is the Word! Reading the Bible does not make anyone more or less righteous... I look at the Bible as love letters from God... but even if i did not read them over and over again... does not change how much He loves me. Even more than that I cherish my time spent with God... He will write His word on your heart! God Loves You!
      Monday at 10:10pm · · 5 people
    • Derrick Day God neither permits sickness nor does he inflict it. The devil's job is to steal, kill, and destroy (John 10:10) and believers give him permission. Consider Job, who gave permission to satan through fear (Job 1:5 and 3:25) and self-righteousness (too many to list). Also, God is omniscient, he doesn't need to test us for His benefit.
      Monday at 11:06pm · · 7 people
    • Pang William Quoted... [Grace and faith alone are not enough. If it is enough we don't have to suffer and go through so much hardship.]... I say His Grace is more than enough but it is our little faith not enough... O ye of little faith?
      Monday at 11:15pm ·
    • Pam Burrell Kilpatrick
      If He SAID has come to give us LIFE ABUNDANT LIFE- why would our good Father give us other than that? Is He a liar? If HE said that an earthly father knows how to give good gifts (THINGS) HOW MUCH MORE your Heavenly Father, not a stone in place of bread, etc. BUT there is one who gives that kind of "gift" wanting people to think it is GOD. Matt. 7:9-11 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! Again Luke 11: 9-13 Any intellectually honest person who understands Jesus came to heal cannot seriously believe that His Son who came to SHOW US THE FATHER- would now be giving cancer and catastrophe to those He loves. Where did this schizopheric thinking come from? Job only Job is their proof text. Things changed at the Cross. Quit trying to make Job the filter through which the Cross is understood - instead UNDERSTAND the CROSS and then read all the ALL Old Testament events and writings.
      Monday at 11:26pm · · 7 people
    • Bertha Harmon Pang, Jesus said, "In this life, you will have trial and tribulation (not, I will send you trial and tribulation to teach you and grow you), BUT BE OF GOOD CHEER FOR I HAVE OVERCOME THE WORLD."
      Yesterday at 1:14am · · 7 people
    • Bertha Harmon Many are the afflictions of the righteous, (because we have an adversary who has come to kill, steal and destroy us) BUT HE DELIVERS US OUT OF THEM ALL!" Hallelujah!!!!! Now that's GRACE!!!!!
      Yesterday at 1:18am · · 5 people
    • Bertha Harmon Shalom, dear one!!!!! :)
      Yesterday at 1:25am · · 1 person
    • Ditas Irene Lopez-Pangilinan
      William, please: next time you post a friend's thoughts, say so. You had me worried there, because this is so unlike you!

      What does your friend mean by "our perfection"? Because the original that James wrote is "completion". Finishing. Which means there is a process going on. God does not want us to simply have resilience, He is completing His work of transforming us into the image of His Son Jesus Christ. There is a different focus on each statement: one focuses on how God is improving you, the other on how God is transforming you. Two different thoughts. One focuses you on yourself, the other on Jesus. God is not working to make us perfect. He is perfecting the image of Christ in us.

      What exactly does your friend mean by "grace" that he/she can say that God's work in our lives does not involve grace? But the sad thing is, this person seems to be focused on how God is improving him, making him a better person, when God is doing more than that. All those character traits he is talking about are developed as we let the Spirit bear fruit in our lives. Again, grace and faith, no effort on our part.

      Your friend talks mostly about what God is doing in him to improve him, using suffering and hardship. Where is Jesus? What is Jesus' role in all this? What is Jesus' role in his life? He sees himself as needing to learn resilience, and so is given trials, suffering and hardship to learn. Jesus went through so much worse...did He really need to learn something? Those things are not in the bible. The testing of our faith PRODUCES, not teaches, perseverance/endurance so that we become complete and whole, not lacking. Testing happens. Suffering happens. Hardship happens. Why does God allow it? Because ADAM CHOSE IT. He does not allow a specific suffering for you just to teach you, but He can use any hardship you go through in His work of completing your transformation into the image of Christ.

      Your friend seems focused on becoming a better person. God is focused on transforming him into Christ-likeness. I guess that's why he thinks that grace and faith aren't enough, because if you don't have Jesus in your sight, you won't see how the Holy Spirit is working in you, and you will think that it is up to you to learn lessons from hardship and suffering. That is working, not faith in the finished work of Christ, not faith in the on-going work of the Spirit, so that we can be reunited forever with the Father. And if you think you have to work on your own improvement, you won't want to depend on God's grace to finish His work in you.

      God works all things together for good. In this world we will have trouble, but we can take heart, because JESUS has overcome the world!
      Yesterday at 4:24am · · 4 people
    • Pang William Thanks Ditas, it is clear that by the fruit we know the tree... for those who know me long enough would easily tell that isn't me. I feel very sad even now to tell you all... this person is very very dear to me and all I can do is pray for her to truly open her eyes to Grace.
      22 hours ago · · 1 person
    • Joan Lim-Choong
      Amen PAm! Even in Job, it was the devil using the weather, the wind, the terrorists and the robbers but God got the bad name. It is the Lord who gives good things and it is not the Lord who has taken away. in fact, God hates these doctrines of arguing from human experience and faulty reasoning of trying to find fault with ourselves and our past and having a bad opinion of God ~ see how He fried the 3 friends of Job (the Eliphaz fella and the 2 other chaps)! Poor guys dont know better cos they dont have a mediator like we do... There is no one good without Jesus, praise God for Jesus, He is our ransom! (Job 33:25)
      22 hours ago · · 2 people
    • Nugraha Suprana
      If you live in old testament time, yes God allow. But not in new testament. I think God has won the war for us.
      About ten years ago, I read that they found an old japanese soldiers hiding in a deep jungle in borneo, fully armed, thinking the war is still on.
      I certainly dont want to be like that poor soldier.
      22 hours ago ·
    • Cody Nuchols God never allowed Satan to do anything to Job. Satan had complete control over the earth. Satan gained his power when Adam sinned. God never allowed Satan to do anything to Job. Job 1:8 is a mistranslation!!! If you go back to the original language(Hebrew) this verse actually says "why have you picked my servant Job?" God never "allowed" anything to happen to Job.
      21 hours ago · · 2 people
    • Marshall Holmes So how do you explain the trials & hardships? If you're not being tempted & tried by the enemy, you are no threat to him. And Pang is right, he has to get permission from our loving Father before He can bring anything against us. Grace did not do away w/ the need for strength training as a warrior in Christ's army. If you're not in training for the end time army, you should be! Don't get left behind!!
      21 hours ago ·
    • Cody Nuchols Satan has no power over me. Satan can only do to you what you believe he can. Through Jesus we are victorious! Satan is a defeated foe. God doesn't allow things that He is not in control of. God doesn't send people into car wrecks to teach them a lesson.
      21 hours ago · · 2 people
    • Paula MakeSparkles Chambers Pang replied 13 hours ago...."Marshall, FYI I didn't write that... someone did. I just copy and paste here to see how many agree or disagree." (4th comment in this thread)
      21 hours ago · · 1 person
    • Pang William Marshall, definitely there are tribulations in this world but they ain't from God... but God is good, He will always turn the tribulations to our benefits because we are in His Beloved. Therefore rejoice in Him in time trouble... for He has overcome the world. Hallelujah!!
      19 hours ago · · 5 people
    • Marshall Holmes ‎:)
      19 hours ago ·
    • Ditas Irene Lopez-Pangilinan
      I guess where I differ from this view is this: when we go through trials and tribulations as Jesus said we would, what is God really teaching us? Is He simply teaching us to be strong? Or is He teaching us that He is our strength? I don't think God just wants me to become a better person and a stronger christian, but more than that, He wants to transform me into the image of Jesus. He wants me to draw closer to Him, not just learn to bounce back from pain.

      Job "bounced back"? Or God restored? Two different things. We will overcome and good things will come out of it? What I've read is that Jesus HAS OVERCOME, and that it is God who works things for good. One view focuses you on you, what happens to you, how you become better. The other focuses you on God and His grace. If you think you are responsible for learning from hardships and suffering, then you won't need faith and grace. But if you know that even in all that, God is still in charge, then that's already faith and grace in action.

      A man who died of cancer last year gave this statement: "If God heals me, God is God, and God is good. But if God does not heal me, God is still God, and God is still good." And I think that because of that, God chose to give him the ultimate healing: freedom from a dying body into a glorious, incorruptible body in the presence of God. It's not about learning to be stronger, but about seeing God for who He really is. That's what happened to Job. That's what happened to this man, to Daniel's friends, to Daniel, and I hope also, it is happening in me, specially because I have more than what Job, Daniel and his friends have: I have Jesus, who has overcome the world, and in whom all of God's promises are "yes!" and "amen!"
      15 hours ago · · 2 people
    • Pang William My dear Ditas... You are truly enlightened! The trials and tribulations of this world are not meant to strengthen us (our flesh) but our dependence (our faith) in Christ. In Christ all our trials and tribulations have been overcome! Amen.
      13 hours ago · · 4 people
    • Ditas Irene Lopez-Pangilinan thank you, William. ^_^
      12 hours ago · · 1 person
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