Wednesday, March 2, 2011

How do you define faith?

Pang William
Quoted: [The bible should be used to correct, to encourage and to bless people but not to condemn. Without faith it is impossible to please God. That is only true if the person has received instruction from God and that person is not trusting God to act. Years ago, a group of pastors in Korea acted on faith and crossed the river. They believed like Peter that they would walk on water since Peter did. They acted on faith. It is all biblical. That Peter walked on water, that we should act by faith and so on. However this group of pastors drown. They did not walk on water. Despite their faith they did not walk on water. In this case they have faith but why did God not save them and let them walk on water.]

How do you define faith? Does it mean one must only hear God to have faith? Do you call that bunch of pastors... having faith?
on Monday · · ·
  • Cathy Rheeder and Ebenezer Sam like this.
    • Carol L Robinson There is an old book out called, "Faith, Foolishness and Presumption". Faith is trusting in the promises of God, AND the leading of the Holy Spirit. You cannot take one person's leading from God and apply that leading to yourself.......that is a dead work. It is similar to someone jumping in front of a train track in front of an oncoming engine to test God. That is plain foolishness.
      Yesterday at 12:17am · · 7 people
    • Alan St Andrew Here's one definition that I like, from F. F. Bosworth - "Faith is expecting God to keep His promise." I would echo a particular translation of Mark 11:22 - "Reckon on [COUNT ON] God's faithfulness."
      Yesterday at 1:36am · · 1 person
    • Steve Kincade
      Great answer Carol. Jesus only did what His father told Him (John 14:31). The devil tried to get Him to jump off a mountain. He would not saying " 'Do not put the Lord your G-d to the test.'" (Mat 4:7) Peter was right to get out of the boat because the Lord first spoke to him and said "Come". (Mat 14:29)

      Our faith is sometimes shown by what we do not do as well as what we do. Sometimes we want to prove to the world that G-d is real. But if G-d does not first say "Do This" then have the faith to simply be still.
      Yesterday at 2:40am · · 5 people
    • Ditas Irene Lopez-Pangilinan
      All I know is, when Peter walked on the water, JESUS TOLD HIM TO "COME." He didn't just get out of the boat and walk to Jesus, he asked Jesus to bid him, and Jesus did. I may be presuming here, but I don't think those pastors were being called to walk on the water. Just because Peter was, doesn't mean we all will be. Like Jesus told Peter himself about John after the resurrection: "If I want him to remain until I return, what is that to you? You follow Me!" The other disciples thought it meant John wouldn't die, but the real thing there is "what is that to you? You follow Me!"

      And where were they planning to go? Peter was going to Jesus. How about them? It really sounds like they just want to show off God's power...but that's not how God wants to glorify Himself. He is not a divine stunt director.

      So no...I don't think they acted from faith. I won't say they didn't have faith, I'm sure they did. But this one particular act looks more like a testing of God than an act of faith. Presumption, as Carol pointed out, and, forgive me, but it was a foolish thing to do. God never made any promises that we could walk on water. Mark 16 lists the promised signs that would follow those who believe, and walking on water is not there.

      I like Joseph Prince's definition: "Faith is having a good opinion of God." ^_^ This is why I still think that those pastors had faith...they just didn't exercise it wisely... =((
      Yesterday at 2:47am · · 3 people
    • Alan St Andrew
      Let's not forget that our beloved Peter TESTED if it was truly Jesus, and ASKED Him to bid him "come." The Accuser was trying to get Jesus to doubt Father's word of identification to Him, "You are my Beloved Son..." and PROVE [another word for TEST] it by DOING... Gideon put Him to the test with the fleece. Mary, in the announcement of her coming pregnancy. David "relied" on Him against Goliath (and enemy after enemy after that!). And so on. There is a difference in these types of tests. There WAS a time Father said "put Me to the test..."10 Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need." Malachi 3:10 (ESV)
      Yesterday at 3:07am · · 2 people
    • Ditas Irene Lopez-Pangilinan
      with the exception of Jesus' tests, all these other questions -Peter's walking on water, Gideon's fleece, Mary's visit to Elizabeth - were assurances needed by these people struggling to believe in what God was asking them to do or face: do...See More
      Yesterday at 4:46am · · 1 person
    • Pang William
      First question... How do you define faith? I'm sure many can quote: Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. No doubt it is something you hoped for and something yet be seen... but then why the group of pastors drown if they claimed to have faith? That isn't faith. Faith is not what you believe you can do, but what you believe Christ has accomplished by the cross. If you say by His stripes you were healed, that's faith. If you say He was made poor so I can be make rich, that's faith. But if you say Peter walked on water so can I, that's not faith!
      Yesterday at 6:39pm · · 1 person
    • Pang William
      Second question... Does it mean one must only hear God to have faith? Many can quote: Rom 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. No doubt faith comes by hearing, but no necessary by hearing an inner voice but hearing by the Word of Christ. What you hear must be in line with what the Word said.

      Mat 4:6 and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written: 'HE SHALL GIVE HIS ANGELS CHARGE OVER YOU,' and, IN THEIR HANDS THEY SHALL BEAR YOU UP, LEST YOU DASH YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.' "

      I'm sure you know who said that to Jesus? And did Jesus throw Himself down? Probably the group of pastors heard a voice saying go walk on water and they faithfully obeyed... Ha...
      Yesterday at 7:03pm · · 2 people
    • Ditas Irene Lopez-Pangilinan yikes...scary thought, William...but possible...*shiver*
      Yesterday at 7:10pm · · 1 person
    • Pang William
      Third question... Do you call that bunch of pastors... having faith? I call that stupidity! Haha...

      Ya one more thing... Have you ever heard saying like... You must have faith and quoted "Without faith it is impossible to please God"? It comes back to the first question... How do you define faith? My answer is... Without Christ it is impossible to please God!
      Yesterday at 7:15pm · · 3 people
    • Pam Burrell Kilpatrick I really believe we can do miraculous things but only at His leading or prompting and with trust in Him. To just try to do something supernatural without His being the initiator of it is simply an attempt of human effort. He will meet your faith if it is real faith. If it is just you, then you have become presumptuous.
      23 hours ago · · 4 people
    • Pang William Yes Pam. Only when we all live in His fullness in glory. Recently I posted a topic: You ask, you get. You don't ask, you don't get... http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=186345291404129&id=100000859777273
      22 hours ago ·
    • Michael Kaminski
      Well, I've prayed to stop the rain three time & it worked every time!

      However, I didn't try to stop any of the nasty snowstorms or the blizzard that hit us this winter. Why? the faith to do so didn't well up in my heart.

      Simple as that.....

      The times it did, it was a FACT that the rain would stop before I prayed. PERIOD.

      My ex-pastor's wife still thinks I'm nuts & canceled the outdoor nativity anyhow, but the rain stopped & she could have held the event that night, lol.

      Another time, my friend kidnapped me to the Alman Brothers & b*tched all the way about the remnants of a hurricane.... I told him "Don't worry, I got connections" ~ he knew about the nativity story & knew just what I meant. The storm rolled out to sea & we spent the day dry.

      The third time, my daughter took me to see the Mets (try to) play baseball. We just finished cooking out & it started raining as we sat down to eat. I prayed "Lord, I don't think it's your will that my daughter would spend her hard earned money to spend a lovely day at the ballpark eating this delicious meal with her father in the rain, so please stop it & let it clear up because you love us so much." Within a minute, the rain stopped & the sun came out, although this dark cloud hung overhead for a while. As it turned out, I went home sunburned.
      22 hours ago · · 4 people
    • Ditas Irene Lopez-Pangilinan wow, Michael! beautiful faith stories! But at least, you didn't make your kids who may not know how to swim to the middle of a lake and tell them "Peter walked on water, so can you!" arrgh...I wonder how Peter is dealing with those pastors in heaven...hmmm...^_^
      22 hours ago · · 1 person
    • Pang William
      Mat 14:28 And Peter answered Him and said, "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water." ... Just a thought over this verse... Only in time of trouble, Jesus surely help us to overcome the storm when we come to Him. Only in time of trouble, not when we try to test Him.

      Peter would say... you didn't ask "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water." ... you must ask first. haha...
      19 hours ago ·
    • John P. Cwynar I think we should just be thankful that on this occasion the sheep had enough sense not to follow their shepherds, or this could have turned into a greater fiasco.
      16 hours ago · · 2 people
    • Joy Aj Speechleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees
      16 hours ago · · 1 person
    • Michael Kaminski
      As a young Christian, I actually tried to walk on water once and failed miserably, lol. Thankfully from shore at a beach at low tide.

      Why? God didn't ask me to.

      Just go to prove the verses in 1John 5:14-15:

      'This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us - whatever we ask - we know that we have what we asked of him.'
      16 hours ago · · 2 people
    • Donna Tremblay
      Not sure who, maybe Pastor Prince preached on this and brought out this one very important thing about Jesus and Peter, now I think I remember it being JP and he said that the Lord did not ask Peter to walk on the water as Peter was not ready for it, but if you will note that it was Peter who asked The Lord to call him out on the water, if it was HIm. How could the Lord say no? It was the Lord. The thing is that Peter was not ready for this, this is why the Lord did not bid Peter but Peter asked the Lord, "if it be You" putting the Lord in a position to answer him by saying "come". I am not sure but it may have been that JP asked the Lord and the Lord gave him this, if my memory serves me right. Anyone hear this message?

      So it goes back to who's idea was it for Peter to walk on the water? Peter's. So who's idea was it for these men to walk on the water? And did they ask the Lord? There are lots of unanswered questions in this story.

      Personally I think that we should be able to walk on water, period. But I also think that I am not ready for it right now. According to the word, Mark 11:22-23. There is something that happens outside our faith, and that is the faith of Jesus that is perfect. Maybe it was their faith that failed, and maybe they needed God's faith? I think the word faith is the most mulit defined word in the bible, and for me, the toughest word to understand. I like what Michael says, faith rises up, ahhh, now it sounds like He is in control, and it is His faith being used and it doesn't depend on me to walk on water. What is it that my faith is in, my faith, or His?
      8 hours ago · · 2 people
    • Pang William
      Donna, I don't think it was JP. If it was him, I should recall... having heard more than 500 of his preaching. What you said is true, Jesus didn't initial Peter to walk on water but Peter first asked Jesus to let him. Because Peter asked, therefore he walked. You ask, you get. You don't ask, you don't get.

      This is my revelation... In the midst of the storm, whenever we turn to Jesus, we will overcome it. The key here is look to Jesus and cast our worries unto Him... we'll walk on water.
      8 hours ago · · 2 people
    • Donna Tremblay I still think it was JP, but I definitely could be wrong...
      8 hours ago · · 1 person
    • John P. Cwynar
      I think Donna hit the nail on the head when she said 'Personally...' There was a personal relationship between Jesus & Peter that was being hammered out. Faith is a personal relationship between two living person-Person. What happened on that water was a Peter & Jesus thing. It may suggest what John & Jesus might do when we have nothing better going on, although being a Baptist I would be sure to go under. But walking on water is not a 'principle of faith' or a 'test of faith' that all of the 'faith-ful' should be able to 'perform.' As William said: "The key here is look to Jesus (personal encounter)... we'll walk on water." or cow pies or whatever He wants us to walk on.
      7 hours ago · · 2 people
    • Michael Kaminski
      Okay, here's one......

      What about "whoever says to this mountain be cast into the sea, it shall be done."

      Literal?

      This might sound foolish at first glance, but I may have mentioned it to Donna privately, maybe not. Right how, and since the late 1940's, 700 miles off the coast of Africa in the Atlantic Ocean, I can't recall the name of it, sits an Island where a volcano erupted. Part of that volcano slide down the mountainside; the rest is quite literally sitting there waiting to 'slide into the sea. It may happen in 5 minutes or 1000 years, but it will happen.' according to scientists.

      I believe, and from Holy Spirit, that some mighty man of God is going to speak to that mountain in these last days & see it cast into the sea!

      It's odd that Jesus would chose that exact example to show true faith & that now there's a mountain sitting there waiting to be cast into the sea......
      6 hours ago · · 1 person
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